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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.08 23:19:00 -
[1]
>>>Confessor is talking about ASCN members who did nothing but the 10/10 plexes while PS and Feyth burned>>>>
Well, all those that I know running the 10/10 complex in D-F (dunno about the other plexes, as I was assigned to this one) did not keep the high-value loot for themselves but it was sold for corp and alliance to finance the war. Which was several hundred billion ISK from plexes in the last months. So yes, ASCN members were running those plexes and (even during the war) defending it against others (primarily RUA and allies, but also BoB wolfpacks). And no, they did not do it for their own profit.
You will find many of those people on the killboards too (losses and kills), so they did their part in fighting at the frontline in between plex respawns too.
Logistics and financing is an important part of any large scale conflict, as important as any fleet engagement.
Have fun
Ian
 Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
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Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.09 16:11:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Confessor
Meanwhile, the plex *****s ARE raping the plexes 23/7 making isk for themselves and thier "capital support" corps that of course never materialized on the home front. I dont want to hear anymore bullsh1t from the ascn corps that claimed to be supporting us fools ont he front line fighting tooth and nail for your full retreat while hearing "we'll be right there boys, just one more day, hold tight, fight to the end"
Greetings, Confessor
would you care to name those people or corps you believe to have "raped the plexes 23/7 making isk for themselves " ?
I can only speak about the team doing the 10/10 plex in D-F. They did not run the plex for themselves. If you want to know where the money from that plex has been used : check killboards for number of EDF and VAF ships (including several capital ships) having been destroyed defending ASCN space (many ! - most ASCN gangs had a high number of EDF pilots). Not to forget the cost for POS parts and POS fuel. Add to that capital ship jump fuel expenses. Add again the amount of money needed for mineral compression in Empire, to make cheap ship replacements programs possible. Plus a certain amount of cash for the Titan building coming from plex revenues. The money did NOT go into the wallets of the individual pilots running the plex.
It is possible that some plexes have been run by certain people or certain corps for their own profit during the war. If this is so, please mention their names and which plex has been abused in your opinion.
At present I think you are making a general statement which is not true.
Have fun
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
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Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.10 14:26:00 -
[3]
Greetings,
keep in mind that high kill ratios in the early weeks of the war were usually the result of a node crash followed by people logging in and being killed while logging in (with no chance to fight back, as they were basically staring at a black screen).
It took some time for pilots that are not primarily PvP pilots to optimize their EVE clients and settings to a point where they were able to log in after a node crash fast enough without getting slaughtered.
Important lessons learned the hard way.
So if people want to learn something from the BoB-ASCN war, i strongly recommend that they look into the ways to optimize their EVE client and settings for a fleet battle situation (and then send it out to the pilots of their alliance, for use whenever necessary).
Have fun
Ian
.
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
|
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2007.01.10 15:14:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Ian Novarider on 10/01/2007 15:14:43
>>> When the node crashes both sides drop out. So to say that it was only due to node crashes is to buy into the same tired excuses that John and co spoonfed you. >>>>
The point from my previous post is ....
when an experienced PvP corp goes into war, they already use EVE clients and settings optimized for fleet combat. This allows them to log in quickly after a node crash. This also allows them a quicker response time in heavy lag situations.
In contrast to that a corp or alliance that is comprised mainly of pilots with little PvP experience will have many of their pilots NOT using such optimized EVE clients at the beginning of the war. They have to learn this the hard way - learning by dying. Often while watching a black screen during log-in.
So yes, when the node dies pilots from both sides have to log in again. Those with optimized clients will log in faster and have the opportunity to act sooner than others.
This was one major (but not the only) reason for heavy losses early in the war at little cost to the other side. If you re-read my previous post, you will see that I did not claim it to be the only reason.
Again ... for the future ... if corps prepare their pilots NOW they can avoid repeating such mistakes in similar situations.
Have fun
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
|
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.10 16:07:00 -
[5]
Other things that can be learned from this war IMHO:
a) proper strontium level management in POS is extremely important (so that a reenforced POS comes out of reenforcement in a timezone where your alliance is strongest). Such stront management can and should be done even at the height of the enemy attack (so having a hauler character within POS shields that can log in at more or less any time helps).
b) a "standing" cyno chain network for rapid troop movement is a must
c) a Titan is VERY useful as a flying jump portal, as it allows you to bypass gatecamp blob traps. This gives your fleet many more tactical and strategical options.
d) Ship Replacement programs should be planned BEFORE a war (so this plan can be executed starting at day 1). Every delay in getting cheap replacement ships to your frontline pilots will cost ya.
e) Shared capital ships .... to allow the use of capital ships at ANY time, you might want to consider assigning teams of capital ship pilots (from different time zones) to corp owned capital ships. There are other ways of ensuring capital ship availability, but most of them are not allowed by CCP.
f) Many of your ships will be lost on their way to the frontline, usually to enemy interceptor wolfpacks. Convoys and convoy security (and the proper ships for the job) is an area you can train for before a war starts.
g) You can never have enough covert ops pilots (especially when they have probing experience too)
(and whenever one of your gang pilots warps to zero to uncloak your own cov ops pilot, have him watch 200 episodes of "Denver Clan" , because thats the torture he deserves)
h) You can never have enough dictor pilots
Personal opinion, of course.
Have fun
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
|
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.10 16:16:00 -
[6]
>>><Wellcoem to EVE-Online Fleet battels m8 , i have lost loads of battle ships and even interceptor plus pod exactly the same was and that was even 8 months ago >>>>>
>>>>no magic or secret behind it realy. >>>>
As said before ... PvP and fleet battle experience is an important factor. Someone that has experienced this 8 months ago is better prepared compared to someone that experiences this for the first time.
Its the same reason why military forces worldwide drill their soldiers. You stay cool if the situation is not new to you. Or if you have faced worse in training or previous engagements.
Have fun
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
|
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.10 16:41:00 -
[7]
>>>> Good post, kudos for your analysis of what you did wrong. >>>>
Its mostly an analysis of what i have seen BoB do better than ASCN.
Hopefully others will train this before they go to war. It will improve their performance IMHO.
Have fun
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
|
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.10 22:32:00 -
[8]
Hmm, some other things that might be worth mentioning IMHO ....
a) POS shield repping ...
alliances might want to train repping shields with carriers (with some carriers running the capital shield reppers and other carriers transferring juice to them). It IS a very efficient to kickstart a POS coming out of reenforcement. Of course, having a couple of med shield repper equipped Ospreys within POS shields also helps. Be sure to train keeping your ships right out of the POS shields, so they can quickly dive back into the protection of the shields if an enemy fleet decides to snipe your reppers. And even if they are webbed by suicide frigs.
b) Squadron, Wing and Fleet Commanders
Them having the right skills, ships and links improves your whole fleet. Its also NOT trivial for a non-PvP non-fleet-battle-experienced team to form up in a proper fleet. Expect some frustrating first tries that seem to take AGES.
c) Teamspeak Discipline
People WILL chat. Find a way to have them chat somewhere where it does not disturb fleet command giving orders. People WILL get excited. Be ready to mute and/or kick those that get too emotional and/or have their mike open and their children singing in the background and/or the occasional spy blasting Iron Maiden into your TS channel.
d) FC down and the pleasure of gang invites
In my experience fleet command does not have time to do gang invites. Too many channels open, information overload comes fast. Dedicated people (which are NOT fleet commanders) checking for people willing to join gang are worth their ships mass in gold.
Engagements can also fall apart fast if the FC of one side gets podded. Chain of command in case officers going down should be clear to everyone. Train it. Have FC stop talking and watch what happens. Consider having your FC in a cloaker (then you MAYBE need another one in a non cloaking ship calling out targets for the FC).
e) Node crashes
Train behaviour in heavy lag situations and after node crashes. Maybe join a large fleet battle somewhere to experience it. Optimize your EVE client and settings for quick relog.
f) The science of the last log in point
There are many tricks learned by experience to control where and how fast you log in after a node crash. It should NOT be at a gate you have just jumped too. Plenty of info about the in various threads here on the forum, but a lot of it in anectodal form, interwoven with rumour and hear-say. Test it.
g) The science of going to warp fast
Study how fast fleets can enter warp. It has a lot to do with the modules you choose for your ships. It has even more to do with training everyone to align to warp out point the very moment they arrive. Every second gained can mean life and death for whole fleets, especially in the Age of Titans.
I learned a lot in the past 5 months about fleet combat. It always amazes me how EVE shows you layer after layer of depth you have not seen or experienced before.
Have fun
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
|
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.11 08:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lone Bear
Dont wanna sound harsh or seem smacking, but almost all what you wrote comes in mind directly or is available through blogs reading / forum reading. Anyway, nice summup.
Yes, thats the irony of it. Most of it is known. Has been known and discussed for quite some time.
But its not known to the mayority of the pilots. It may SOUND obvious, but it isnt to many. And - except for a select "few" with mostly PvP-specialization - it would need some effort within corps and alliances to educate and train their pilots.
Well, my naive self from 6 months ago - a 0.0 virgin - was not aware of 80 % of the things I mentioned in my previous posts. So it was an interesting, educating half year.
Have fun
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
|
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.11 15:40:00 -
[10]
>>> Worse, he plays Abba. >>>
MAN, thats just MEAN !
What did he play ? "The winner takes it all" ?!
Have fun
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
|
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:13:00 -
[11]
Well, give us some time to recover and there comes the time when he will play "Waterloo" ;-)
Have fun 
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
|
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2007.01.11 16:38:00 -
[12]
Interesting question :
Is an industrialist alliance more alt heavy than a PvP alliance or is it vice versa ?
Have fun
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
|
Ian Novarider
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.12 08:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: DB Preacher
Check out the recent demographic post I made for an idea of how many alts we have:
Demographics post
dbp
There was a similar survey on the ASCN forum .... and the numbers sound almost exactly the same. So i think the answer is : "No significant difference."
Have fun
Ian
Quote:
Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
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